8 comments

  • GuB-42 11 minutes ago
    I have heard this news many times, technically not wrong, but each time with a different metric. This time it is production over a year.

    It reminds me of the Voyager probes that left the solar system half a dozen times, each time taking a different definition of what marks the edge of the solar system.

    Anyways, we are now getting to sensible metrics, which is good.

  • marcosdumay 1 hour ago
    What is not on the title:

    For an entire year, that year being 2025.

    Also, yes, absolute generation from fossil fuels is declining quickly. The total generation is changing way more slowly than that share.

    • novaRom 1 hour ago
      But so is German industry - every day in the news either insolvency or workforce reduction and moving production to Eastern Europe - main reason often stated "expensive Energy". I wonder what are the stats for industrial production in 2025 or total energy consumption in Germany?
      • freehorse 40 minutes ago
        Discussion about nuclear reactors aside, energy in germany became expensive when they cut off russian gas and they had no good alternative. There was no other source of cheap fossil fuels for electricity production. If anything, renewables are promoted as a solution to that energy problem.

        The discussion about fossil fuels vs renewables is a bit different within countries which produce fossil fuels than within those that don't.

        • RandomLensman 37 minutes ago
          Germany cut off Russian gas? Gazprom suspended supply indefinitely via NS1 before it was destroyed.
          • freehorse 34 minutes ago
            When we are talking about countries, what matters is the political decisions, not the technical details imo.
            • RandomLensman 32 minutes ago
              What German political decision back then do you mean that cut off supply via NS1?
              • freehorse 15 minutes ago
                Political decisions that lead to that point and geopolitical situation. The russians cut the gas on their terms because it would have happened anyway and they were not stupid. Then somebody else blew the pipe up and the whole discussion conveniently ended. The divestment from russian economy and blocking imports was already established, but germany and others could not phase out the gas that fast.
                • RandomLensman 11 minutes ago
                  Still, when did Germany cut off Russian gas back then? I don't think there is particular complexity in the sequence of events back then. Germany back then was not seeking an end to supplies then and there, if I recall correctly.
              • bluGill 6 minutes ago
                The German political decision to not join with Russia and invade Ukraine (via Poland?).

                Just because it was the right decision doesn't mean there are not downsides.

                • RandomLensman 4 minutes ago
                  Accepting potential consequences is not the same as oneself cutting things off. Germany did not seek to end supplies then and there.
          • pydry 11 minutes ago
            Canada sanctioned the repaired gas turbines needed to operate NS1. They flip flopped on their decision some time later though.

            This was spun as a Russian decision.

            • RandomLensman 9 minutes ago
              I don't think the turbine that was serviced in Canada was causal there. The turbine thing was earlier, as far as I recall it. Gazprom announced its decision in early Sep 2022, btw.
      • Helmut10001 1 hour ago
        You make it sound like there is a causality here. I would be careful. German GDP is declining for other reasons, not for their commitment to renwables. Also, by all measures, living in Germany still means you get one of the most comfortable, secure and free lives on earth. I wouldn't give up on Germany so fast. They still know how to work and often work, even if there is no reason to work (i.e looking at their current regulations, which rather motivate you to _not_ work).
      • marcosdumay 1 hour ago
        Looks stable:

        https://tradingeconomics.com/germany/industrial-production-m...

        Of course, stable is probably bad here. But it's not declining.

      • Tade0 2 minutes ago
        Hailing from Germany's eastern neighbor, where part of the industry went to and where energy is even more expensive, I call BS.

        The main reason Germany was so hooked on gas wasn't because Hans Müller needed to run his Bosch washer-dryer and heat his home to a comfortable 24°C.

        It was because natural gas is an great source of hydrogen, which in turn serves as feedstock for the production of all kinds of chemicals used in industry.

        That was the engine of Germany's industry, not just energy. Energy has a whole spectrum of solutions - not the case with hydrogen.

      • hdgvhicv 44 minutes ago
        U.K. energy is expensive because it’s all based on the cost of gas.

        Onshore wind and solar is about £40-50

        Offshore wind about £60

        Gas about £120

        That’s generation cost, before subsidies and levees

        But we still haven’t put in an emergency legislation to make it easier to build cheaper energy.

      • plastic-enjoyer 14 minutes ago
        > But so is German industry - every day in the news either insolvency or workforce reduction and moving production to Eastern Europe - main reason often stated "expensive Energy". I wonder what are the stats for industrial production in 2025 or total energy consumption in Germany?

        Every First World country seems to be following the path from industrialisation, through deindustrialisation (which, when I was at school, was still called ‘structural change’), to a service-based society. It seems to be the price we pay for economic prosperity and cheap goods - and it is not the first time in Germany this happens.

        • marcosdumay 1 minute ago
          People don't like factory work. Given options, they will choose to do some less physically wearing work that pays more, and pay somebody else to do it.

          Robots are the answer to reindustrialize the developed world, but that necessarily keeps industry smaller than services.

        • bluGill 4 minutes ago
          > Every First World country seems to be following the path from industrialisation, through deindustrialisation

          Are you sure? Jobs are no longer in industrial companies, and that isn't where the growth is. However when I look at the numbers I see heavy industry output is still growing.

      • _visgean 53 minutes ago
        i am pretty sure its not energy that domaines the move. eg skoda is now way more profitable than rest of VW. The cost of employment is way higher in DE..
      • gregorygoc 47 minutes ago
        There’s nothing wrong with creative destruction
  • NishanStepak 1 hour ago
    Part of this is about a new way to store energy. In the Netherlands, they have started storing heat energy with sand, in Germany, they are using bricks. This has some advantages. It allows the direct use of heat for industrial processes and heating industrial and commercial facilities. They can either convert energy into electricity or use the heat directly. This technology can be used with a wide variety of energy sources. This includes nuclear because it allows thermal storage of excess heat from nuclear energy. This kind of setup is supposed to be more stable for the grid and more reliable for storing energy.
    • raphinou 1 hour ago
      I think I have read that heat is hard to convert to useful energy. Can someone confirm? But the, if that's true, why use heat as energy storage?
      • adgjlsfhk1 42 minutes ago
        Heat is really useful if the energy form you want is heat. If you want electricity or motion it's not the best.
      • bluGill 42 minutes ago
        That depends on what you need energy for. Converting heat energy stored during the day to heat my house at night is easy. Converting heat energy stored into light is much harder (as the other reply stated, it needs high heat and thus is a fire hazard)
      • mrguyorama 35 minutes ago
        "Low grade heat", less than the boiling point of water (often), can be stored in a sand system and recovered efficiently and distributed later.

        But low grade heat cannot efficiently drive a heat engine to produce other, more useful and transferable versions of energy, like electricity. For that you need "high grade" heat.

        The reason is, heat engines do not operate on heat. They operate on heat flow. You must have a high temperature side and a low temperature side, and you extract energy by taking heat out of the high side and injecting it to the low side, through various processes. By thermodynamics, this process has hard efficiency limits of around 35%, with that efficiency heavily affected by the delta between the hot and cold side.

        The "low" heat side is often a great source of low grade heat, for industrial or communal purposes, but cannot be used to run an efficient heat engine. It's already "used up" essentially.

      • QuercusMax 54 minutes ago
        Heat can't be converted losslessly to useful energy, but converting to heat to other forms of energy is extremely common. What do you think a steam turbine, boiler, internal combustion engine, etc. do?
        • raphinou 48 minutes ago
          But all the examples you give have a heat source of high temperature and dense energy, and a lot of energy is lost in it's transformation, as illustrated by the combustion engine. How can heat be a good energy storage if so much is lost when you want to use it?
          • SoftTalker 16 minutes ago
            If it's free to collect (solar) then efficiency matters a lot less.
            • bluGill 0 minutes ago
              It isn't just the cost to collect, it is also the cost to store. Heat is easy and safe to store at just above room temperature in rocks - but you need a lot of rocks. Just to heat my house for a few days would need tons of rock at temperatures I'd allow in my house (I have kids and so I worry they will open the rock container and get burnt). Rocks are not free. You can also use water for storage, but again you have the issue needing a tank (and water is a drowning hazard, plus the worry about leaks...)
      • cyberax 13 minutes ago
        Yes. This is sometimes called "Carnot tax".

        The efficiency of any heat engine is bounded by the Carnot cycle. In simplified form, it depends on the temperature differential between the cold and the hot parts. So if your hot part is at 300C (572 Kelvin), and the cold part is at 30C (300 Kelvin) then the absolutely best possible efficiency is around (572-300)/572*100% = 47%.

        You see that it quickly becomes inefficient as the differential goes down. E.g. if you use 90C to store the heat, then the maximum efficiency is just 17%.

      • atoav 54 minutes ago
        Use it directly, see my silbling comment.
    • atoav 55 minutes ago
      I know someone who runs a mineral water company. His biggest expense was the energy cost for washing the glas bottles. He now built a absolutely massive solar farm that feeds directly into heating a well insulated underground water tank. At the time he told me about it (ca two years ago) he said according to his research it is not unlikely to be the biggest such hot water storage in Europe.

      The amount of energy needed to test things is just intuitively huge. Boiling one liter of water takes the equivalent amount of energy as lifting 34 metric tons up a meter. Or to translate it to human scale: the same as walking a vertical climb of 1000m with a weight of 34kg.

  • citrin_ru 1 hour ago
    It's a good news and a milestone to celebrate but if we count all energy and not only electricity and not only developed world then the progress is not as fast unfortunately [1].

    Not a long time ago I've seen a post arguing based on the data [1] that renewables are irrelevant and should not be taken seriously and fossils will the main source for the lifetime.

    [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/global-energy-substitutio...

    • eigenspace 23 minutes ago
      This is such a misleading comparison. The energy used that comes from a solar panel is already in an extremely low-entropy, highly usable form. The energy used from a fossil fuel is highly inefficient and hard to harness.

      For instance, if you just go by the number of joules in an electric car's battery versus the number of joules in a gasoline car's tank with the same range, you'll see that a 'normal' electric car gets around 15 kWh/100km whereas even a rather efficient gas car needs something more like 50kWh/100km. That's because gas combusion loses gigantic amounts of energy to heat and sound.

      If you want to talk about 'total energy consumption' and compare solar/wind against fossil fuels, you should count the amount of energy in the sunlight that hits the surface of the solar panel, or the amount of wind energy hitting the turbine blade, rather than the amount of energy they deliver to the grid.

    • ragebol 1 hour ago
      When looking at hat kind of graphs, it's good to keep in mind that burning hydrocarbons is relatively inefficient: only ~20-30% of the energy in the fuel turns into useful work, while electricity is much, much more efficient. So, we need much less of it.

      Still a long ways to go regardless, but much less bleak. And also, exponentially growing deployments of wind and solar are harder to spot on this 2-year old graph which goes only up to 2024.

      • foota 8 minutes ago
        > only ~20-30% of the energy in the fuel turns into useful work, while electricity is much, much more efficient. So, we need much less of it.

        Isn't a lot of energy used for heating, not work?

      • Veedrac 10 minutes ago
        They account for this.

        > Primary energy is based on the substitution method and measured in terawatt-hours.

      • bluGill 39 minutes ago
        That is very much a it depends. The best combined cycle power plants get around 60% efficient. The gas engine in your car is in the ideal case around 45% efficient - but the way you drive in the real world is only about 20-30% efficient.
      • ben_w 59 minutes ago
        Indeed. That exponential has renewables being ~100% of electricity in the early to mid 2030s, and approximately ~100% of all power in the late 2030s to early 2040s even without the efficiency improvement from direct electricity use.
    • afarah1 52 minutes ago
      Also interesting to look at the chart per country. [2] US fossil fuel is 4x entire Germany, while for China just coal is over 8x all of Germany. So good and relevant news at a local scale! But pretty irrelevant at a global one... A scale at which there is more talk than action in parts of the world, probably because it would be too economically painful if not unfeasible to e.g. limit or tax imports, outsourcing etc by emission source.

      [2] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/primary-energy-source-bar...

  • lisenKaci 7 minutes ago
    does natural gas count as fossil fuels here?
  • ginkgotree 51 minutes ago
    Now they just gotta get the good ole DB to run on time.
  • suddenlybananas 1 hour ago
    Imagine how much better carbon emissions would be in Germany if they hadn't dismantled nuclear!

    https://app.electricitymaps.com/map/zone/FR/live/fifteen_min... Anyone is free to compare France and Germany here.

    • throw0101d 1 hour ago
      > Imagine how much better carbon emissions would be in Germany if they hadn't dismantled nuclear!

      Germany has 15.4 GW of hard coal generation, and 14.7 GW of lignite, for a total of 30.1 GW:

      * https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

      In 2010, before the shutdowns started, it had 21.5 GW of nuclear.

      So if all the other rollouts (renewables, etc) had stayed the same, but the shutdown of nuclear and coal was swapped, Germany could have reduced its emission generation capacity by an extra 66%. (Focusing mainly on coal, since that is (AIUI) the worst of the carbon emitters.)

      • throw0101d 1 hour ago
        (Meta: I understand some folks aren't a fan of nuclear. I disagree, but recognize people have different values and weighing of priorities. But I just find it fucking stupid that coal was left to keep running by people who claim that climate change is a priority. Certainly a discussion can be had about pros/cons of new nuclear, but why the fuck would you prioritize closing current nuclear over coal?)
        • bildung 8 minutes ago
          Well first, coal went down, too, if we are still discussing Germany. In parallel with shrinking nuclear generation. See the cleanenergywire link upthread for the numbers. So the coal vs. nuclear discussion is baseless already (again, if we still talk about Germany).

          Secondly, energy != electricity. Coal is mostly used for central heating (a plant heats water, water is then transported to a whole neighborhood). Electricity is sometimes also produced, but usually not the primary reason for the plant to exist in the first place. Nuclear plants are usually used for generating electricity (in Germany). Germanys carbon problem is the heating infrastructure being dependant on fossil fuels (mostly gas), but it has no lack of electricity sources.

          Thanks for stating your openmindedness re/ nuclear discussion, BTW, IME statements like this can really lift the whole level of discourse.

        • patall 54 minutes ago
          Who are those people that kept coal running but claim climate change is a priority? Because they are not the german green party, that much I know.
      • purerandomness 1 hour ago
        The Greens were not in Office when the nuclear exit was decided 2011.

        The Greens actually prolonged their life time during Covid, after RWE, EON and EnBW argued that it does not make sense economically to let them run longer.

        No insurer wanted to insure nuclear, and no energy company wanted to keep losing money on nuclear.

        Since nuclear is the most expensive form of energy generation, it makes sense to switch it off first.

        • looperhacks 29 minutes ago
          I agree with everything you say, but the initial "Atomausstieg" was decided in 2000/put into law in 2002, when the Greens were in office. The exit was delayed in 2010 (and then accelerated again in 2011) by the CDU/CSU/FDP, but the initial decision for the exit was very with involvement of the Green party
        • belorn 26 minutes ago
          Can coal plants buy insurance against global warming? Can a hydroelectric dam buy insurance against downstream flooding?

          Very few things in the power grid has insurance against major accidents. It is even doubtful for example if a forest fires caused by transmission lines will be repaid in full by the insurance of the power company, and to the degree that will pay all costs to property and land owners

        • throw0101d 47 minutes ago
          > The Greens were not in Office when the nuclear exit was decided 2011.

          Schröder was talking about it in 2000:

          * https://www.theguardian.com/world/2000/jun/15/johnhooper

          * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerhard_Schröder#Domestic_poli...

          Oh, and he was appointed to Gazprom (and other Russian energy companies) after leaving politics:

          * https://www.dw.com/en/former-chancellor-schröder-sworn-in-at...

          (He did encourage renewables as well.)

          > No insurer wanted to insure nuclear, and no energy company wanted to keep losing money on nuclear.

          The German government(s) helped kickstart the global solar price drop by their subsidy programs in the early 2000s that allowed for economies of scale, so I'm surprised that—if they're really worried about climate change—they would not subsidize the alleged expenses of running the low-carbon generation of nuclear.

          > Since nuclear is the most expensive form of energy generation, it makes sense to switch it off first.

          It's so expensive that prices in France, which generates >60% of power with nuclear, are at the same levels (or lower) as Germany, while producing less carbon per kWh than Germany (a quarter from some articles I've found).

          See perhaps:

          > […] Alternatively, Germany could have kept the existing nuclear power in 2002 and possibly invest in new nuclear capacity. The analysis of these two alternatives shows that Germany could have reached its climate gas emission target by achieving a 73% cut in emissions on top of the achievements in 2022 and simultaneously cut the spending in half compared to Energiewende. Thus, Germany should have adopted an energy policy based on keeping and expanding nuclear power.

          * https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/14786451.2024.2...

          • RandomLensman 43 minutes ago
            Politically that would have been done how? I think in restropect removing nuclear powerplants that make awful targets in a conflict doesn't strike me as a bad choice either.
          • Krasnol 23 minutes ago
            > It's so expensive that prices in France, which generates >60% of power with nuclear, are at the same levels (or lower) as Germany, while producing less carbon per kWh than Germany (a quarter from some articles I've found).

            Maybe you should take a closer look how those prices come to be.

            Every single nuclear watt is being subsidised and has been for decades.

            Last time they wanted to play the free market game, they had to bring the company back into the forgiving hands of the French taxpayer.

            I have rather Germany invest into future tech then waste it on rotting reactors which are obviously unfit for the current state of global warming already.

            Nuclear was clogging up the grid with it's expensive energy. It is gone now and the grid is diversifying while it follows the path of complete decarbonisation.

            There is absolutely no reason to look back for Germany and only those whose ideology is "looking back" seriously do that currently.

            • realusername 2 minutes ago
              > Every single nuclear watt is being subsidised and has been for decades.

              You won't find any grid which isn't subsidized, remember Germany already spent ~2x the French grid and that didn't spend by itself.

            • cyberax 9 minutes ago
              > Every single nuclear watt is being subsidised and has been for decades.

              So is everything else.

      • patall 56 minutes ago
        And Europe would be in even bigger black-out trouble right now as half of those 20 GW of nuclear power would not be running due to missing cooling water, just like is the case in the other European countries.

        The german green part certainly isn't perfect, but they had a plan. A plan that included far more renewable energies than currently build. The ones that orchestrated the ultimate end of nuclear energy while shutting down build up of renewables are the conservatives. Blaming someone for a half executed plan is childish. Especially when it is from a party that supposedly had economic competence yet killed tens of thousands of jobs.

    • toomuchtodo 1 hour ago
      Those carbon emissions are tuition. Germany is now ramping battery storage, as most of Europe is, to push out more expensive fossil gas.

      Ember Energy: Batteries and demand flexibility are ready to scale across the EU - https://ember-energy.org/latest-insights/batteries-and-deman... - June 24th, 2026 ("The EU battery fleet is projected to grow fourfold, from 37 GW in 2025 to 178 GW by 2030. As this growth unfolds, batteries reduce the need for regular gas backup. By 2030, EU batteries could deliver in a single hour over 80% of the power that all EU gas power plants combined can generate in the same period, up from about 20% in 2025.")

      Largest battery storage in Germany set for partial commissioning - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49104584 - July 2026 (0 comments)

      Germany's solar installations drop while new battery storage hits record - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48019046 - May 2026 (8 comments)

      • suddenlybananas 1 hour ago
        They could have done all this without dismantling nuclear power and emitting more carbon than they otherwise would have.
        • lnz_me 1 hour ago
          i love the "but nuclear" crowd as they seem to gloss over that a nuke is a steam engine and needs water. water we don't have anymore. if you follow the news in europe you'll see every summer that country X (normally france) has to drastically reduce or switch off their nukes because no water.
          • toomuchtodo 1 hour ago
            Romania blasts rock to divert water from drought-hit Danube to nuclear reactor - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49158035 - August 2026 (0 comments)

            What's happening in Hungary's power grid? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49154001 - August 2026 (0 comments)

            Hungary to shut down sole nuclear plant as Danube falls to record low - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49145531 - August 2026 [dupe]

            EU considers emergncy meeting as nuclear shutdown leaves HU facing energy crisis - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49131244 - August 2026 (1 comment)

            How Hungary became the best at solar [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49125682 - July 2026 (1 comment)

            Danube's record low levels force shutdown of Hungary's only nuclear plant - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49120120 - July 2026 (231 comments)

            France powers down several nuclear reactors due to extreme heat - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48899232 - July 2026 (19 comments)

            Europe's extreme heat is shutting down power plants - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48697170 - June 2026 (2 comments)

            Commercial nuclear generation is incompatible with a rapidly warming planet due to cooling demands.

            Europe's summer heat has broken the Bell curve - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49158483 - August 2026

            Bloomberg: Europe’s Key Rivers Are Drying Up as Extreme Heat Impact Widens - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-08-02/europe-s-... | https://archive.today/tVpQJ - August 2nd, 2026

            > Europe’s biggest rivers, including the Rhine and Danube, are drying up after a series of heat waves, disrupting the transport of goods and boosting freight costs. Soaring temperatures are curbing power generation at riverside reactors, pushing up energy prices and straining Eastern European economies. The river disruptions are becoming a test of how quickly the region can adapt infrastructure to a climate where extreme low water is likely to be increasingly common.

            Bloomberg: Europe’s Endless Heat Waves Imperil Once Reliable Power Sources - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-08-01/europe-s-... | https://archive.today/EvSSS - August 1st, 2026

            > A series of heat waves has weakened some of Europe’s most historically reliable sources of electricity, forcing the continent to lean more heavily on imported fossil fuels and variable renewable energy. France’s river-cooled nuclear plants have suffered a record amount of heat-related outages this summer, and hydroelectric plants in the Alps and Nordic region have been hobbled by hot, dry weather. The heat-related strains coincide with a surge in natural gas and coal prices, and the disruptions are poised to push power prices even higher, leaving Europeans facing steeper electricity bills.

            • throw0101d 1 hour ago
              > France powers down several nuclear reactors due to extreme heat - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48899232 - July 2026 (19 comments)

              There's no technical reason why the reactors in question could not have kept running:

              > "Due to the weather conditions and to comply with regulations on [cooling water] discharges, and thus to protect the environment," reactors at the Golfech, Bugey and Chooz plants, located on the banks of the Garonne, Rhône and Meuse rivers respectively, have been shut down, the EDF energy group told Agence France-Presse.

              > The measure is an environmental protection requirement to avoid discharging too much hot water into rivers already warming from the heatwave. Power plants critical to the country's electricity production use river water to cool their reactors, which heats the water that is then released back into the river.

              > The Economy Ministry on Saturday issued an exemption to the temperature limits for the heating of the Rhône around the Bugey plant "to ensure the security of the power grid," valid until July 20.

              • mrguyorama 30 minutes ago
                There's no physics reason of course, but not using the natural river source for cooling like this further hurts the economics of nuclear power, which is already it's primary weakness.

                Similarly, all industrial processes of heat rejection, including data centers, could use closed cycle cooling, but they don't, because it's more expensive to install and operate.

            • suddenlybananas 1 hour ago
              >commercial nuclear generation is incompatible with a rapidly warming planet due to cooling demands

              Well it's good that Germans chose coal over nuclear!

          • suddenlybananas 1 hour ago
            I live in France, and the nuclear power is working perfectly fine. France has about half the carbon emissions of Germany per capita entirely because of German neuroses about nuclear power. While occasionally, they have to turn off one or two reactors so the fish in a given river aren't too hot, it's hardly causing rolling blackouts or energy shortages.

            Renewables also occasionally don't work as well, whether during the night or when the wind isn't blowing (before you retort with oh, but what about batteries, well, those would equally apply to reactors, in which case your original point is irrelevant).

        • toomuchtodo 1 hour ago
          They could've, but people and politics are hard and they didn't. It is what it is, can't change the past. We win or we learn.
          • suddenlybananas 1 hour ago
            That kind of fatalism could apply to literally any idiotic policy. The German government knew what they were doing when they made that choice.
            • RandomLensman 1 hour ago
              You think voters had no role there? I don't see nuclear power enjoying some constitutional protection as such, so choosing against it seems ok.
            • looperhacks 1 hour ago
              "You can't change the past" really isn't fatalism
        • runarberg 1 hour ago
          I’m not sure it is that simple. Nuclear is expensive infrastructure to maintain, by shutting them down you free up resources (including human expertise) that can be used elsewhere.

          I wonder if they had maintained their nuclear infrastructure, if that would have held back renewable build-out, because of economics.

          • opo 27 minutes ago
            If the building costs for the nuclear plants are paid for, nuclear costs are comparable to the costs for utility solar today (and much less than solar 10 years ago).

            Closing down nuclear plants while you keep burning coal is not a good decision, no matter how you look at it: deaths due to pollution (in Germany and downwind countries), deaths due to mining, economic costs, etc. We will also see in the future what affect all the extra CO2 that is being emitted. Even now, I just read that Germany ranks 8th globally for the amount of coal they burn. The people who made the decisions to close nuclear plants while they still burn coal are responsible for all that.

  • yeah879846 2 hours ago
    [dead]